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Reaper - Powerful Conditions

Should be merged with the other Carrion Reaper build. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 20:18, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

You can delete my Carrion Hybrid Axe build. I was the only editor and I'm willing to bring over some of it for this page; the name was old and messed up from when I first made the build anyways. Foxman525 (Elementalist Icon Color.png /u/ Necromancer Icon Color.png) 22:31, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Variants and other editing[edit]

This build is not owned by you, Rubberglove. Therefore, do not say that I can not change the build to include variants. Situations change for combat and team comps in both PvP and PvE which is why variants are included. Other people who are using the build also should see what viable options there are of how to play it. Foxman525 (Elementalist Icon Color.png /u/ Necromancer Icon Color.png) 17:24, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

As a general rule, do not be rude or that imperative. Wikis in general work based on consensus, and sometimes an admin gives the final judgment. If you think it's a copy of your build, you should discuss and then add your ideas, but remember this is a public space and everything you write can and will be modified at any time. --LordShuckle (talk) 18:05, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
First off, Foxman525, you changed my build entirely and then claimed it as yours. Second, this IS my build and my creation. I checked the wiki before making it and you had a Carrion Axe build. This is clearly not Carrion, and it contains an axe for a weapon. You have different utility skills, sigils, and even trait choices. So that's why I edited your User Page to not say this build was yours. Someone mentioned you should delete your Carrion Hybrid build and merge it with this, and I don't recommend that since these are two very different builds. This is a PvP build, so PvE variants should not matter (See that this build is designed for Conquest and not Raid/Dungeon) Rubberglove (talk) 19:47, 11 January 2016 (UTC) Rubberglove
Well, technically openly claiming credit is against our rules to avoid dramas like this - however you can add things like account info to the discussion page, nobody's going to deny that you contributed to this and you guys might know it better than anyone else. PvE/PvP should be kept separate anyways, I don't think I suggested a merge with a build you guys are talking about :p Or maybe I was tripping, idk. --Revenant tango icon 200px.pngHanz (talk) 20:24, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
"Should be merged with the other Carrion Reaper build. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 20:18, 1 November 2015 (UTC)" Rubberglove (talk) 20:27, 11 January 2016 (UTC) Rubberglove
Yeah I likely meant Carrion Frostfire not a PvE build, but i could've been more specific, sry about that. --Revenant tango icon 200px.pngHanz (talk) 20:35, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
No, Hanz, you mentioned the merge with the Reaper - Carrion Hybrid Axe build which changed into celestial through testing and was similar to this build. The subject of PvE only came up because I was trying to impress how variants are useful. Foxman525 (Elementalist Icon Color.png /u/ Necromancer Icon Color.png) 21:34, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Idk why this guy is getting so upset, I really didn't change anything on his build in the first place; the one thing I did add was one variant. The rest was basically in a poor format, and I simply used editing to bring it up to par, so that the build may be used/tested. Well if he wants it deleted, I can simply copy and paste it to another page. Problem is solved hopefully. Foxman525 (Elementalist Icon Color.png /u/ Necromancer Icon Color.png) 21:48, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
I got upset with you because you claimed it as yours, took my build skills and put them as variants, and then placed yours as the original. That's what was annoying and the reason why I deleted the page. I would have been fine with your thoughts being added as variants, but instead you placed them as the main build choice. And it wasn't one variant, you changed 2 traits, healing skill, and 2 utility spells. Rubberglove (talk) 23:23, 11 January 2016 (UTC) Rubberglove
Then, I believe this is all a misunderstanding, sir. I mistakenly saw the skills under the skill bar as variants and rephrased the titles to say such. If you look at this version, [1], you will see that the skills you would've wanted are bellow and not on the actual skill bar.
After that, at the next major update, after I fixed all the templates, you will see that I thought you meant those skills to be variants since they would be mistaken for if below the skill bar. [2], when I applied such update I also added three of my own variants because they are viable to go along with the build's focus:
"Nothing can save you!" "Nothing can save you!"
½Activation.png
25Recharge.png
"Nothing can save you!"
Shout. Damage foes around you, converting their boons into vulnerability. Your attacks become unblockable for a short time. The duration increases based on the number of foes struck.
Damage.pngDamage: 259
Unblockable.pngUnbloackable (4s): Your attacks are unblockable.
Vulnerability.png5Vulnerability(10s): 5% Incoming Damage, 5% Incoming Condition Damage
Book.pngBoons Removed: 2
Book.pngNumber of Targets: 5
Duration.pngDuration Per Target Hit: 1s
Radius.pngRadius: 600
Unblockable.pngUnblockable
,
Decimate Defenses
Decimate Defenses.pngDecimate Defenses
Striking a foe with vulnerability increases your critical hit chance.
Critical Chance Increase.pngCritical Chance per Stack: 2%
, and
Dhuumfire
Dhuumfire.pngDhuumfire
Shroud skill 1 inflicts burning on your target.
Burning.pngBurning (3s): 393 Damage
, which are viable options coming from the other build Reaper - Carrion Hybrid Axe.
In actuality, I thought the skills below would be preferable, and the skills on the skill bar would be inferior choices, but I left as is until me and you could converse and talk it out to see what were your motives/desires. Now, I do admit fault for mistaking your skills as variants, but I feel like this whole drama could have been avoided if you payed closer attention to the changes, used the talk page to figure this all out, and hadn't gotten so perturbed at the thought of someone trying to help grow this build. All, I want is to cooperate with others and create good builds. Btw, I hope the rest of your week goes well with you; again if you compare the two versions I have provided, you will see that the actual skill bar did not change at all. Foxman525 (Elementalist Icon Color.png /u/ Necromancer Icon Color.png) 19:04, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Hard to talk it out with you when you ignore me in game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Either way, I had a handful of people whisper me ingame about the build and I talked them through it and taught them how to use it. That was enough to know that the build was worth while and I had fun making it and was nice to see people use it. Since you brought up the older version of the page, that was in the transition of making it to what I wanted, I kept updating it because I found better configurations of the build until I got the end result, which is air tight in its choices besides 1 or 2 traits. I'm happy with the article being deleted still, the drama you caused just isn't worth babying this page 24/7.
And to pass you some insight on why I didn't agree with your variants, is because you didn't see how the build functions at all. Dhuum's Fire isn't viable since this build doesn't focus on conditions, it just has it as a factor and it gets a slight boost from Celestial Amulet, which is why I take the 50% crit trait. To tie that in, decimate defenses is bad for this build since it's purpose is to create near infinite healing while in shroud and life force generation with the combination of the Chilling Victory (grants might on hit if target is chilled) which lets Blighter's Boon (gain health if a boon is applied to you in Reaper Shroud, life force if not) so that you can you can still do insane burst to get the "If Below 50% do 20% more damage to that target" trait to activate. While still being able to heal yourself inside shroud and quickly generate life force outside of it. As for "Nothing Can Save You", that would get rid of the condition transferring, which you would think would be fine with Consume Conditions. But with the Augury of Death trait, it allows for a VERY short cooldown of "Your Soul Is Mine!", which grants a lot of health and life force. Rubberglove (talk) 19:53, 12 January 2016 (UTC) Rubberglove
Already apologizing for making a slight mistake, I kindly suggest we stop an immature game of pointing figures of who is to blame for this mess. Once again, I did not do as you have accused me of. I also like where the build is from your last contribution, and I wouldn't want the main section changed since it is generally optimal. With that said, variants are still needed which I have explained before.
This is a valuable build that is worth sharing to the community, and I am not willing to give it up to deletion; there are three roads of this battle ending:

1.) Instead of continuing requesting for deletion, you can state to agree and contribute constructive conversation to what should be included as variants.

2.) You can leave this build alone willingly, so that I can include variants. This shouldn't be an issue since you already wish to abandon build via deletion.

3.) An admin will come and decide the fate of the build's future contributors' activity.

Already stating my opinion in a past post, I wish for option one to be chosen; until one of these things occurs, it is futile to argue why my variants are valid viable options. Personally, I feel that we should come together as a community, two gents, or two build creators, so that this build can be further progressed. I do not claim to be perfect, and my variants might be completely wrong, but you and I obviously can not come to a sensible argument and one possible solution without your consensual participation. Foxman525 (Elementalist Icon Color.png /u/ Necromancer Icon Color.png) 04:44, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
The whole point I've been making though, and it's the one you disagree with. This build was built on the premise of precision in trait and skill choices. Variants would change the build entirely from what I created it to be. That's why I explained how your variables wouldn't work with the build, it would change it to something else. This is a build for surviving and damage output through the use of spammable life/life force generating spells. As for your wish of Choice 1. being chosen, like I said. You ignored me ingame the moment I edited your first change. So I can't ACTUALLY converse with you on a constructive basis since this discussion area is the only place I have the ability to talk to you. It's great you admitted your mistakes, that's fine. It's just that clearly this article caused an issue, and it would be better off gone and forgotten. Still disgusts me you're still saying "Oh I'll just take the build once it's deleted". If you really want this build kept here under the oh-so holy premise of "it's a great build and I like where it is" then do just that. Leave this build here, copy it, and change it to how YOU want it to be somewhere else. I get that the idea of posting my build to an public space wiki means that my build is subject to criticism and change by the community, that's understandable. The point I've just been enforcing this entire time, which I can't get across. Is that this build requires the precision in traits and utility spells, which I mentioned before, to be able to function as intended. Rubberglove (talk) 16:50, 13 January 2016 (UTC) Rubberglove
And, why can you not converse here? There's nothing else to be said other than an admin obviously has to step in at this point since you are unwilling to come to a setting of a sensible argument, and of course you are unwilling to leave it as well. Continue to blame me for the drama, but it has no substance. Foxman525 (Elementalist Icon Color.png /u/ Necromancer Icon Color.png) 18:24, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
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