Elementalist - Power DPS

Our dungeon group has been using this build for a while now, I believe this is currently the highest DPS in organized dungeons. One can tweak this build to one's needs/preferences. E.G:

  • I normally use the 6 6 2 0 0 setup: I can't see many places where blasting staff is useful. 10% more DPS seems better than increased MS hits.
  • When using glyph of storms in Air (immediate 25 vuln), you can switch the last trait to X - Air Training, provided you don't need the extra endurance.
  • Tempest Defense is amazing when freezing an enemy, as this counts as a stun.
  • With 6 6 0 2 0 in water, you could opt to go with IV - Piercing Shards, for increased DPS with conjured weapons. This is only a DPS increase if you are not within 600 range, because being in fire attunement with stone splinters is easier and has the same DPS increase. However, this situation is extremely rare.
  • When being the second ele, some people play 5 5 2 2 0. I have no idea why, persisting seems to good to ever lose, if only for the increased Lava Font duration. Qiff (talk) 10:25, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Zerk vs Assassin's[edit]

Ranger is not a part of the meta anymore, does this make assassins armor better? Blackie (talk) 13:35, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Ranger's are, and historically have been, barely taken into consideration for meta comps. So I would say no to that « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 17:23, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Scholar Variant[edit]

I would assume in PvE with perma-burn and full might stacks, that flame legion out does strength runes. But if the party is not at full stacks, then I'm not sure. Can we get some clarification on this before changing it? Strength might be better from a solo perspective, but that's not what this page is for. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 17:23, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll model it based on this: « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 17:26, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Running variant[edit]

I have two sets of armor, one for raw DPS (scholar, which adds power and ferocity) and one for running (Centaurs, which adds only power). Spec air down two and Arcana up two and add Elemental Attunement (a trait I've come to love - lingering attunements + AoE might-regen-swiftness-protection, plus you still can use Ice Spike to apply vulnerability). Without centaur runes you can almost maintain just using air attunement-windborne speed-any other attunment-air attunement-other attunment-air attunement-windborne speed. With centaurs, you have enough just with raw swaps but can use your favorite heal and stack swiftness to almost 2 minutes for 5 people (it stops stacking in the 1:30 to 1:50 range). Add lightning flash if running solo for a bit more speed ('sins may still win due to shadow steps, but in the open field you will outpace them). --Falseprophet (talk) 16:41, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Reversion needed[edit]

Not sure how to revert everything but all the edits made by Fredor are just plain wrong as they all assume the base build to contain Glyph of Storms and not Arcane Wave. Which leaves the build without permanent fury upkeep, without permanent Arcane lightning upkeep, subpar damage and the build is also not suited to a meta dungeon team because in a meta dungeon team as a whole works together to supply vulnerability and thief+guard is responsible for the blinds and not the elementalist so additional vulnerability or blinds from Glyph of Storms is not required. Should be reverted to the 14:09, 27 February 2015‎ build. Blackie (talk) 10:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm horrible at reverting edits too especially if I'm tired. But will look into it. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 10:28, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Instead of reverting I've tried to keep some parts of Fredor's edits. What do you think about it now? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 10:38, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
My honest thoughts are that I'm surprised reverting is so hard (really, I thought that was easy?), and also that it's a shitload of work to look over all his edits rather then going back to a relatively fault free page but I'm gonna look over it now and make edits if required. Blackie (talk) 11:21, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
What_have_you_done. The rotation came from the two [KRS] main eles, a well known speed running guild. You start with your eruption and that gives you an ass load of time to cast the hard hitting water skill while still having enough time to still use the fire field to blast with eruption. Glyph of storms is also too strong not to use which makes it a hard choice using this or arcane wave, which I mentioned. You also have enough fury from your two blast finishers one of which also triggers your arcane trait. Next time wait a bit until you change EVERYTHING. Fredor (talk) 11:57, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
And it's also completely different from DNT rotation, and it also ONLY works if you have TWO fucking elementalists in team working together to maintain arcane brilliance and it cannot maintain permanent fury without either both elementalists being specced 6 points in to fire. I'm not saying the rotation and build doesn't work, but YOU have no clue how it works, when it works, and how it fits in to a team. Blackie (talk) 12:06, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
no it is not completly different. IT IS THE SAME ROTATION YOU DESCRIBED THERE. Only that the short compact rotation we wanted to have is now crippled in a huge wall of text Fredor (talk) 12:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
It's the short compact rotation you only want when doing say Ascalon catacombs. Which I imagine is the just about the full extent of your dungeon experience. The short rotation deals more damage in a very short fight such as vs spider queen but the long rotation has significantly more damage in a 10-12 second because with the long one Meteor Shower and Ice storm ends at almost the exact same time which leads to far higher peak DPS. Blackie (talk) 12:15, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Keep it clean guys. I've set protection to the build page, no edits can be made by normal users for a day. Discuss changes before changing things on the fly. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 12:42, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
You changed a easy understandable rotation into a ginormous wall of text so that you are 2.356s faster in AC? Are you serious? Fredor (talk) 12:54, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
The long rotation is the rotation suitable for general usage, yours is the one suitable only to AC. Blackie (talk) 13:16, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
It's actually very simple. 1. The main rotation is Earth -> Fire -> Lava Font -> Meteor Shower -> Fireball -> Lava Font -> Frost Bow -> FB4/5 -> Lava Font because Meteor Shower takes 9 seconds to complete and FB4 takes 3 seconds. If you do FB4 first then follow up fire Fire Ball + Lava font it takes ~5 seconds extra before the big damage skills have all concluded rather then them all ending at almost exactly the same time. Unless you can end a fight using a short rotation and you never actually use Meteor Shower at all MS should always be used before Frost Bow. 2. Arcane Brilliance and Arcane Wave are both required to maintain permanent fury and permanent Arcane Brilliance as a solo elementalist. And 150 Feriocity for team is better then 180 personal precision. Making Glyph of Storms and Signet of Fire interchangeable but Arcane Wave is never replaced except in variants of the build where the fight lasts less then 15 seconds. It is therefore completely unsuited as a main variant of the build. 3. Ice Spike is an optional skill because it prolongs peak damage rotation and should only be used if additional vulnerability is actually needed and only in extended fights. 4. Glyph of Storms is an awesome variant and my personal preferred one but the vulnerability it provides is not required if all of your team mates are using meta builds which is something we should assume as default here at metabattle. The same goes for blinds from Sandstorm in a meta dungeon composition which has both a thief and a guardian providing them. I'm not opposed to having it as a main variant but as mentioned above it would then replace Signet of Fire as default and not Arcane Wave. Everything I say and I have said here are straight up facts and not based off third party "Somebody important told me this is the best" and it is also in line with the DEKeyz video. Every edit he has made should be removed and the "rage reversion" he did should in my mind be counted as vandalism, which is why I left this to the moderators rather then engage in a reversion war myself. But the build should immediately be reverted to a sane and logical version of the build, either the edit mentioned above which is perfectly in line with DEKeyz video or the recent edit I made because his version is at best a variant suited to a specific encounter or dungeon rather then a main build and it should not be allowed to stand and mislead the public even for 24 hours. Blackie (talk) 13:16, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
  1. I wrote that if you do not need the icebow freeze - which it is most of the time - then start with meteorshower. Or let's put it like that I had the same rotation and you changed to into a wall of text.
    1. A staff elementalist cannot maintain permanent fury. Two explo finisher for 20~ fury is more than enough, especially in the ac runs you are so fond of.
    2. Only you get the ferocity from the arcane lightning, not your whole team. Stop changing stuff if you do not understand how the traits work.
  2. Ice Spike does some nice dps and vulerability is always good.
  3. Nike himself, yes dnt you are so fond of, said a short while ago that a meta team can has only around 10 stacks of vulnerability after the initial burst. Thus letting the ele start with glyph of storms which allows the warrior to start with gs, which means more vulnerability since he doesn't waste his vuln skills.
  4. The build is nearly the same with nearly the same rotation with all options explained. Arcane Brilliance should be added to the rotation, but nothing else is needed. Furthermore a small change like adding arcane wave into the build would have been a small change. Nothing that warrants you coming in here screaming revision and changing everything into a whole blob of text. Fredor (talk) 13:49, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
I didn't go in to every one of your edits in detail because at a glance they all based themselves on changing the main build from a build suited to general dungeon usage to a build only suited to be a variant of the main build. Just as your rotation is not the primary DPS rotation for dungeon usage but rather a variant of such. I'm not, and I never had said your build is bad or screamed about it, but it's not a build suited for the general dungeon meta category. Your build, your edits, your rotation belong in speed running guide tuning it self in towards a specific dungeon path or boss and how to run that specific path or kill that specific boss as fast as possible. Not how to run dungeons as quick as possible, not how to run paths as quick as possible. The primary version of this build should be a version that works in all Dungeons in the entire game and which doesn't rely specifically on supplemental fury from other builds and which assumes the other members of your team to be doing their jobs properly. And the same goes for primary rotation and primary trait setup.Blackie (talk) 14:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
You came in here and accused me that each and everyone of my edits is "just plain wrong", a few posts later that it is neither "sane nor logical build" and that "it shouldn't be here even for 24h" altought the differences where upon inspection minimal. And now you are claiming that you never said that the build is bad? Are you fucking kidding me? Moreover you are suggesting now that we should just change the variant (which was also incorporated into my setup)? Why did you not do that from the beginning? How about "hey guys, there is a variant that might be better suited to be the main variant. What do you think?" instead of accusing the users in here of something. The only thing that got us that was an useless editwar for a few minor alterations which could have been made in 5 minutes tops. No I stand by my point. This build stays as it is with a few minor alterations since it incorporates your variant. And since I think that we both do not come to an agreement on this I would let Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) decide that since he is at least a moderator. All in favor? Fredor (talk) 15:27, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Lets make that quote a little longer shall we? "all the edits made by Fredor are just plain wrong as they all assume the base build to contain Glyph of Storms and not Arcane Wave." Your edits all base themselves on a build with fundamental flaws which only works in very specific encounters. So just to repeat myself, your build still isn't (at all) suited to be the general staff build on this page. And unlike you with your rage edits I didn't go out and engage in an edit war in the first place. Blackie (talk) 16:25, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
You came in here accused people and instantly starting to change everything, although minor alterations would have been sufficient, just to give it your personal mark. Thats a declaration of war for me. Making the quote longer changes nothing to your statements. To the glyph: It is still the stronger option since it gives you a huge amount of vuln or aoe blindess. Arcane wave is still not needed since the fights are mostly over after a few seconds. At least in the groups you suggest we have. Fredor (talk) 16:43, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm tired of discussing this with you because all you do is make me repeat myself. Read the thread and you will see I made edits because Hanz said reverting build was hard. So as you can see I wasn't out to leave a single personal mark on this build and that the build I posted was exactly the same it was and has been for a long time, since long before I ever made a single edit to this page. So "my build" isn't even "my build" it's the one that was there before all of this. And the skill rotation I added isn't a personal touch either, it's the skill rotation which objectively does the most amount of damage in the least amount of time and it includes variants for both when you use Glyph of Storms and when you don't. It has a short rotation suited to very quick fights and a "long" rotation which objectively does the most damage in the least amount of time because as already stated, all the big damage skills end at the exact same time while your rotation takes approximately five seconds more before Meteor Shower has finished doing it's damage. And to answer your comment about short fights, even when the fights are short mishaps happen, and even if mobs die near instantly you need to be fully buffed up also for the next group and you don't always have time to swap back to earth element for the blast in between groups of mobs / fights. Blackie (talk) 17:20, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
You completly erased and remade the complete rotation which was before utter bullcrap instead just changing/adding one skill :3 Fredor (talk) 17:46, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
It's a rotation that goes through all major skills in 12 seconds with both Frost Bow and Meteor Shower ending at almost the exact same time (from eruption starting to meteor shower ending) and then moves on to cycling between autoattacks and lava font vs a rotation where it takes 17 seconds before Meteor Shower ends and where FB4 ends approximately 6 seconds in. They do the exact same thing in 17 seconds, but mine does significantly more in 12. And especially with your skill selection which is even more pointed there is even less reason for why you would want to use the 17 second one over the 12 second one. I really do struggle to see any good argument for why you would want to use a 17 second rotation over a 12 second one. Blackie (talk) 18:05, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Once capital letters were introduced into the conversation I stopped reading. I know both of you are good editors and good players. This is just an argument about "best practices" and I'll look into it when I have more time. IMO we should mainbar what is most often used and include many variations for different scenarios. Personally I would have done Glyph, Ice Box, Arcane Wave as the main bar utilities. And I don't use the glyph for blinds but for vuln stacking at the beginning of the fight. After the world tournament series is over, I'll give this more thought. Please do not edit it further, becuase I do not want to look through more edits. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 17:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

One small edit needs to be made. Adding arcane brilliance as number 5 in the rotation Fredor (talk) 17:11, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Todays edit[edit]

  • Removed the version without vulnerability, should/is only used for solo/duo play.
  • If only elementalist in group you are expected to provide permanent fury. Main build should be designed as stand-alone as this is "Staff Conjure" build and not "Dual Staff Elementalist" page.
  • If two staff elementalists are in the same group, dropping Arcane Wave in favor of Sigil of Fire while keeping the 66... Trait selection is optimal. This allows them to provide permanent fury in extended fights by working in tandem with each other and gives both optimal DPS (230 prec, 50 power and reduced cooldown on glyph as well as double copies of glyph of storms instead of one bringing wave and other storm) Blackie (talk) 18:47, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
No vuln trait variant should be restored for parties already capping on might Fredor (talk) 11:25, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Huh?! Typo? Or you mean parties already capping on vuln? Anyhow, I think it's useless in almost all groups but I use said trait selection quite often when soloing so I'm not opposed to keeping it. If you want it back put it back. Blackie (talk) 15:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes I meant vuln. I think we should keep it. This might be worthwhile if you have one good engi in your group Fredor (talk) 15:57, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
"If capping on vuln remove two points from air magic and put them in to earth / water for a 10% damage buff." would cover that part though. Tbh I'd just rather have an ele in a group using the wrong build with vuln we don't need rather then an ele showing up using the wrong build w/o vuln when we need it. That's pretty much the whole reason why it's gone so do what you want. Blackie (talk) 16:04, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

The nerf song[edit] RIP, here's a worthy tribute xP --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 07:16, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

DPS rotation[edit]

The dps rotation on this build seems off. You really want to be in water during ice bow and meteor shower. Even more so since attunement cooldowns got lowered significantly.

I know the rotations are off, it's what is missing in this build at the moment, just give us some time to correct that and it will be fixed :) - Jerem ((talk))


Did you intentionally remove eruption from the rotation? Fredor (talk) 22:37, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it takes too long to be worth it in any of the rotations and prevents you from being able to conjure an ice bow before the fight starts. Abe
Okay. I am no ele guy it just seemed odd. That's also the reason why someone else needs to check the other ele builds. Fredor (talk) 22:55, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Whats the calculation for icebow damage?[edit]

Does it count as a 2h weapon, so is it like power X weapon damage x coefficient / armor? or what. --Scootts (talk) 07:01, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

OOC Might stacking?[edit]

Would it be worth adding a small section outlining the basics of stacking might out of combat, maybe just the order of skills? This would probably be more aimed at pugs, as a decent ele can solo might stack to 25. Coolyellow42 (talk) 16:59, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

If you're running a meta PvE staff Ele, you should not be trying to stack 25 might. You can get to 21 reliably with multiple weapon swaps and 2 Arcane skills, and 24 if your timing is really tight. However, if you're running with any sort of meta comp you should be aiming for 12 or so. Slotting in Arcane Wave over Frost Bow, GoS, or SoF is a mistake before a boss fight, unless the boss cannot be frozen. In a good group, where you can get away with Arcane Brilliance, you don't need to use it to stack might if everyone else is doing their job regarding might sourcing. If you're in a PuG, your survivability will take a massive hit with Arcane Brilliance, particularly against bosses with conditions. Feel free to add the 15-18 stack rotation though, which can easily be achieved without utility or heal skills by going S/F -> Fire 2, Fire 4, Fire 3 -> (Heal) Earth 4 -> Swap to D/D -> Earth 4 -> Water 3 -> Staff -> Earth when off CD for Earth 2 on the boss -> opening rotation. If you're confident that the group is going to jump on the boss at the right time, a better rotation is S/F Fire 2, Fire 4, Fire 3 -> D/D Water 3 -> S/F Earth 4 -> D/D Earth 4, Earth 5 -> Staff Earth 2 on boss -> Air GoS -> Fire 2 -> kill. There are many variations of this but for the sake of this being a meta guide, I'd have a simple rotation for meta groups (ie Staff-only with AB), and a simple rotation for PuGs running near-meta (above). In a PuG, if the remaining 4 members of the party can't provide the 10 remaining might, it's a worthless party that isn't going to be saved by you hurting your in-fight potential to milk more stacks of might for your allies.--Terriblebuilddude (talk) 15:16, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Blast Finisher[edit]

So i'm not really sure how up to date the video is and I saw from the topic above that Eruption is a net DPS loss. My question is then what do we use for a blast finisher. I'm not seeing anything else. I think it might be viable to change it from Persisting Flames to:

Pyromancer's Puissance - Extra Might Stacking

Blinding Ashes - Melee Heavy Areas

Or am I just missing something? Djriff (talk) 06:58, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

You don't blast after the initial might stacking unless, a) you have a reason to switch to Earth (Magnetic Aura share, casting Earth Ele for certain encounters, etc.), b) you're running Arcane Wave instead of Frost Bow. Might upkeep while in combat is not your job. Granted, this may all go straight to hell with those 20 minute fractal boss fights in the higher scales now.--Terriblebuilddude (talk) 13:59, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Ah ok that makes a lot of sense then. I only thought about Pyromancer's Puissance as a way to ease might stacking. Good to know, thanks! Djriff (talk) 05:04, 29 October 2015 (UTC)