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Mesmer - Condi Shatter

Traits[edit]

Wouldn't a 24206 trait setup work better instead of the 1st trait table?

  • We'd drop
    Mirror of Anguish Mirror of Anguish
    60Recharge.png
    Mirror of Anguish
    When disabled (stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), you mirror the disabling effect back to it's source.
    Fear.pngFear (1s): Flee
    Daze.pngDaze (1s): Unable to use skills.
    Stun.pngStun (1s): Unable to use skills or move.
    Launch.pngLaunch: 450
    Knockback.pngKnockback: 300
    Knockdown.pngKnockdown: 1 second
    Float.pngFloat: 1 second
    Sink.pngSink: 1 second
    for
    Crippling Dissipation Crippling Dissipation
    Crippling Dissipation
    Clones cripple nearby foes when they are killed.
    Cripple.pngCripple (3s): -50% Movement Speed
    Book.pngNumber of Targets: 5
    Radius.pngRadius: 240
    - this also gives a passive 10% condi duration.
  • And swap
    Illusionary Invigoration Illusionary Invigoration
    60Recharge.png
    Illusionary Invigoration
    Recharge all of your shatter skills when your health drops below the threshold.
    Radius.pngHealth Threshold: 50%
    for
    Illusionary Elasticity Illusionary Elasticity
    Illusionary Elasticity
    Bouncing attacks have one additional bounce.
    Book.pngMaximum Additional Bounces: 1
    because it works so well with staff clones.

Also, switched the Torment sigil for Energy as a placeholder until the patch adds that sigil to pvp. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 12:37, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

24206 is more reliant on clones death rather on shatter. i used to played it at start but noticed that mirror of anguish is far better with cc or free break stun combined it with runes of nightmare for another cc which makes your enemy to use break stun skills. /
i use II over IE as it give be better chance to use F4 when needed and also again i tend not to be with clones up so no usefulness from II as usually clones get killed in group fight before doing any dmg from cleave and aoe.
if you like to play like a PU than IE is far better but your overall burst dmg from shatter will drop down significantly Messiah (talk) 13:25, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Even Power shatters take IE (mainly for mirror blades but it does boost staff a lot) too. For condi staff it's absolutely amazing as it can hit the same target twice with 1 autoattack while buffing the mes with boons. But both this and the guard build should be under WvW. Infact this build has another page currently in testing for roaming.--Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 14:31, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
didnt see the mesmer torment build on wvw section. still bit different and playable more as pu with clones out rather shattering them fast. so far i am doing nice versus d/d ele and thieves and also condi necro (as i saw the mesmer build posted lack of)--Messiah (talk) 17:05, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Condi mes[edit]

Btw I'd highly recommend you try this condi build too: Mesmer - Condition Clone Death. It's better in every possible way when it comes to skirmishes. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 14:03, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

i did try it long ago. unfortunately its slow build for pvp as it proc at best 9 stacks of bleeding (also check the video of the creator). so torment which stacks on 1 shatter can be 3 while moving its double and 6 confusion thus higher then the bleeding alone . so think of 6 clones shatter ... much higher burst. also with rampager the condi dmg is very low . and also dont work too well in group fight while mtd works better--Messiah (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, condi mes is not a teamfight build. Maybe the biggest downside of this build is the useless Scepter. Good luck with landing skill 2 on your target (projectile often won't even go for your target), skill 3 barely hits for 1-3 confusion stacks usually (gets dodged and the pre-cast is just lol). Then you have autoattack which is extremely slow and can be easily bodyblocked by other players/pets. All this while you're also extremely squishy, vulnerable to conditions and you must stay in close range (plus can't contest points). What really makes shatter mes rock is
Mirror Blade Mirror Blade
¾Activation.png
8Recharge.png
Mirror Blade
Throw an illusionary greatsword that bounces between targets, damaging foes and giving might to allies. It creates a clone at its first target.
Damage.pngDamage: 273
Might.png3Might (10s): 90 Power, 90 Condition Damage
Vulnerability.png3Vulnerability (3s): 3% Incoming Damage
Book.pngNumber of Bounces: 3
Combo.pngCombo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range.pngRange: 1,200
Unblockable.pngUnblockable
and
Illusionary Persona Illusionary Persona
Illusionary Persona
Shattering illusions creates the shatter effect on you as well.
- with the combination of these and maybe a dodge to create another clone, you can instantly pull a significant burst on your target. With this build you don't have that kind of instant burst, the closest thing to this is
Mirror Images Mirror Images
45Recharge.png
Mirror Images
Clone. Summon two clones to attack your foe.
Stun-Break.pngBreaks stun
Range.pngRange: 1,200
+ shatter in melee range and I must admit that can be amazing sadly that's pretty much all. But otherwise it's easy to avoid a shatter when the ranged clones are running toward you. S/T is a weapon set with close to no dmg (because of how unrelyable and counterable it is). The build I linked might have lower condi dmg (as a stat), but the condi application is a lot faster/more frequent and as long as it's not a ~4v4, the burst is fairly relyable. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 13:59, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
i agree power shatter has its meta place (although thieves do it better) because of his so GREAT AA. on group fight its role like the LB ranger to hit from range go stealth so no thief will catch you and run to other points to cap or contest but never will try to hold it. but this is so other role of the mesmer. the condi mesmer has its role like any other conditions class. necro - who at best does 5 aoe bleed and poison stacks but has his amazing fear and chill but thats it and also cant contest , condi engi same cant contest but has amazing 5 bleed poison and burning every 10 sec. same as condi shatter mesmer can do constant aoe 3 torment 3-6 confusion 3 bleed poison which is better than the other two. also can go short range to secure the #2 block and in group fight i usually get 5 confusion with #3 as they dont focus me. so dont compare power to condi . as can you compare power necro to condi necro ? 2 different role . as condi more aoe pressure in group fight and can handle in 1v1 if needed . power more 1v1 but can handle in group fight if needed. --Messiah (talk) 19:27, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Placement[edit]

Could we remove this from conquest? While for pvp it's not bad, it's ceratinly not something that we should recommend for conquest. I'd like to archieve it, and maybe we'll dust it off when a more fitting gamemode gets released. Another topic: wouldn't carrion be better with a 04046 setup like in the wvw section? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 10:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

atm group comp is basically the same thus it means we should remove all build till Nerf comes to the meta comp . i dont think so. carrion is bad for the mesmer as you lose the ability to bleed with your clones and also 0,4,0,4,6 is so slow bleed proc so carrion will just kill the build --Messiah (talk) 15:10, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Do you actually need that bleed trait considering you're shatter not phantasm? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 15:52, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
if you fight against enemies which got 2 cleanse skills then yes as you must have some cover conditions or conditions which lure you enemy to use cleanse early before you shatter. 2 conditions are easily cleanse or make your fight longer . and also not all your shatter clones will hit and some will die so why not punish your enemy for that which make him think twice what to do.- to kill or not to kill or lets just use my 2 dodges and evade skill--Messiah (talk) 03:23, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Suggestions and My Experiences[edit]

I've been using a very similar build for a couple weeks now: [1]

I use 44006 over things like 04406 since a lot of popular builds utilize boons frequently, espeically DD elementalist. It's also the reason I use Phantasmal Disenchanter, which I can also sacrifice for shattering, too.

I mostly use the scepter for defense and extra clones from the extra dodge (usually just before swapping to regain endurance) and Phantasmal mage. Staying on it too long doesn't add much to a fight (relatively weak auto attack and staying on it just for another round of confusion images isn't worth neglecting staff dps and sigil trigger), but you can output a lot of damage switching into it. Even if people use their defenses to avoid the long casting confusing images, that's less defenses to worry about when you really want to shatter them soon after. I also like scepter/torch's extra survivability versus the double-ranged shatter build's greatsword, but I do miss knocking people away with a purple wave.

I use carrion over rabid for a few reasons: I feel that all three phantasms don't hit frequently enough to make use of bleed on crit. I still gain vigor on crit when I need it, as I frequently hit foes trying to kill me while gaining fury from the staff auto and staff clones. The power gained from carrion scales well with frequently used skills such as mind wrack, confusing images, illusionary counter, and phantasmal warlock. Finally, I'm generally more susceptible to condition damage than direct damage, so the extra vitality is welcomed.

I prefer crippling dissipation over rending shatter as I find it more useful to kite enemies that sometimes insta-gib my clones easier, but rending shatter is still a close second for me.

Illusionary elasticity works on staff auto, staff illusions, and phantasmal mage, giving me an nice boost to overall damage. I personally prefer it over Illusionary Invigoration, but that's still a great trait.

I tend to pressure cleanses and dodges using scepter/torch 3 and 5, staff illusions and auto attacks, and mind wrack when I can quickly create more illusions. When they're vulnerable, I use cry of frustration in addition to the previous skills. If I'm being pressured, the skills on both weapon sets allow me to punish enemies with more damage and soft-cc, especially with scepter/torch. If I wasn't scrapping for illusions for shatter-fuel, I usually cast Phantasmal Disenchanter after a shatter or when I anticipate important boons coming up like stability or tons of might (looking at you again dd ele).

Overall, my variation of the build has held against a lot of builds. It does pretty well in teamfights if I pick the targets for my illusions carefully; throwing illusions away in the very center of a clash has proved wasteful. Like other shatter builds, it rips boons well (which is a large part of the meta) and can deal a lot of damage in a short amount of time while being quite survivable if you're perceptive. Between diversion and chaos storm, it has stong, spaced cc, but less than a double ranged shatter. --Nicoli20 (talk) 08:18, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Changed the word bouncing to illusionary.

indeed carrion also work too and its really depends on your role and team comp. but you have to be more careful against the thief with your low armor.--Messiah (talk) 09:06, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Please stop moving pages on whim, only moderators can move pages. And this goes back to Trial. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 09:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
sry it just say in the Format and Syntax (Template) that if 5 vote then replace it accordingly. it got 4.2 with 6 vote so... take charge of the page --Messiah (talk) 14:00, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
It's fine, np ^^ --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 14:09, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Edit: the reason why it's back to trial is because there's still much to discuss about the options for the build. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 09:55, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
as no discussion beeing made or suggested by you and the build got 6 vote of average 4.2 pls put it in good build but dont make it on trial --Messiah (talk) 18:34, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure it's you voting with alt accs for this and the guard build. As a consequence I'd like to keep them in testing/trial until the new voting system goes live. Some discussion: as the torch phantasm got buffed, IE's absolutely worth it now. For sigils, idk if tormenting's that good because you shouldn't put everything at 1 card. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 18:54, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
if so why is the guard getting 3.2 points mmm if it was me i would put it all 5 ... regarding mesmer - the torch phantasm is still with low chance to hit the target thus is serve more as illusion shatter food. torment rune you right it doesnt really needed (maybe more engi and necro use)
Lol this is why I need to fix the voting system. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 12:23, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
So, it's been a while since we've actually talked about the build itself. Are there any changes or feedback on the build, such as the pros and cons between the differences of the build and the build I discussed above? On a similar note, I've been trying out Rune of the Scavenger. It deals damage faster, but conditions last shorter. Also, it gives a little more sustain at the cost of a random fear when attacked. In reply to Hanz's points of discussion: If by IE you mean Illusionary Elasticity, I've always been a fan of that trait as it works on both the now buffed iMage, the staff auto attack, and staff clones. As for Sigil of Torment, it does more average damage than Sigil of Earth if there's two or more targets that consistently get hit, but I've always preferred Doom and Energy on both sets to make up the lack of poison and to make more use of Deceptive Evasion. Nicoli20 (talk) 01:52, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
The damage is there, but the application is clunky. Scepter is basically useless in teamfights / against semi-decent players it's unrelyable (skill 2 is basically RNG and gets dodged easily), skill 3 can get dodged and exposes the mesmer to enemy borst. Autoattack is also slow and in most cases you won't have time for that. Lack of Mirror Blade and IP makes it harder to set up burst (not to mention it's easier to avoid because you have no access to stuns or immob to root people for your burst and stealth does not give you enough time in most cases to set up an effective shatter). This build also desperately needs Dire stats. It's a good build for 1v1s so WvW roaming in general, but it's definitely not a good build in a tPvp setting. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 12:07, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Illusionary Counter isn't random. As long as you don't cast it too early, you can often catch players with it when they're attacking you. Confusion images doesn't reduce your defense or speed in any way, like many other channeled skills that don't root the caster, so you're just as vulnerable using any other pure offensive skill. Even if Illusionary Counter or Confusing Images is dodged, Illusionary Counter generates a clone regardless and the enemy has less defensive resources to avoid shatters or phantasms. Really, most skills in the game can be dodged easily - including mirror blade and especially iBerseker - but players can't dodge often except when using certain builds like an S/D acrobatic thief. Players either have to spend self-supporting (dodge, block, etc.) or controlling (stun, blind, etc.) resources avoiding those scepter skills or take immense damage, and typically they can't do that and avoid your other hard hitting skills consistently. However, I do agree that the scepter auto attack is weak, but you shouldn't be doing that for too long anyways, especially since the staff has a great auto attack with the build. Double Ranged shatter lacks stuns and immobilize (Illusionary Wave is generally used to interrupt after the burst) as well, but that doesn't matter much to those mesmers when they know the target has exhausted their active defense through pressure. Nicoli20 (talk) 20:34, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
it really depends on your enemy comp. if you see ranger/necro/engi/guard i know the build will do wonder on them even in 3v3 4v4. against thief and ele and mesmer can be hard with thier teleporting skills and movement . yes ppl can dodge you like against any other build. but the aoe pressure this build bring to the fight is very good if you do it right. usually in 3v3 my #2 block hits yes it might me random but i look for aoe to proc it there. but even if its rng someone got 5 torment stacks. i agree in some fights i am carry on as the bunker guard and dd ele cleanse my conditions but they can do this for 10 sec average so i just make staff clones and they do nice 5 bleed burning pressure and with shatter 5-6 torment usually end with someone dead. so its not as fast as the power shatter so no meta for this build. but its good build (remind you it got 4.2 points with 6 ppl voting before you put it on testing again). --Messiah (talk) 22:41, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Testers needed[edit]

Hey, I'd like to duel this build on different classes and also of course try this build against some other classes too. My friends however are being too cheap and won't invest in the torment grandmaster trait. If there's someone willing to do some testing with me, I would greatly appreciate it and think it'll help solidify this build (at least in the usage/counter section). My in game info is on the admins page and I can also be reached on my talk page or skype! PS Hanz, you should get a toon on NA so we can test more... xP « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 02:57, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

When it was on sale I was thinking about that so I can play the game even after 6 PM CET - that's when EU PvP becomes unplayable with lags, dcs and massive skill delay for most of the players. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 12:23, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
i would love to but my NA account only lvl 2 so i cant buy mtd trait yet i need 18 skills point . also couldnt find you in game--Messiah (talk) 00:20, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Dueling Tests 6 of 8 Update[edit]

Hi,

Today me and messiah had the chance to duel. He was playing the build (I believe he has experience with it) and I was testing different popular builds against it.

Playing As Win Loss
D/P Thief 1 2
Shoutbow 2 1
Condi Ranger 2 1
Power Ranger 2 1
Engi Rifle 1 2
Fearmancer 2 3

We didn't get a chance to test ele/guard. According to Messiah he thinks ele is hard to fight on the build and guard is 50/50. This isn't a thorough research, we did usually bo3 and a couple times bo5.

In my opinion this build excels in 1v1 encounters and would be suitable for far point assault in some matches. I haven't played the build, but it seems it would not fair well against strong stuns/cc and it would probably be difficult to pull your weight in AoE fights like 4v4 at mid. I will invest in it, as it seems like a cool build so maybe playing it will bring new perspectives and more ideas.

That being said, the boon removal method I think is a horrible idea, attempting to make this build fit in the old shatter build. This build (imo) is better for 1v1, outpressuring other condi classes (I still think fearmancer would be a hard counter to this build, but I'm a horrible necro, so I don't know for sure, and obv if they've used up their 3-4 condi removal, they are toast against this) and having good burst condi against power classes.

It suffers from ranged attackers, burst, and condi-cleansing classes. So I would say it does not do well against surprise d/p burst in team fight, shoutbow, condi ranger, power ranger at distance (in melee they have a very tough time surviving and I was obv using the meta condi removal variant, which imo is better than pure 66 anyhow), and fearmancer. It does not bring nearly the same aoe potential as an Engi Rifle nor can it stomp very successfully in a team fight. I would assume d/d ele is also slightly in favor against this build, and I do not have enough experience with dps medi guard or this build to consider who wins.

If I were to rate it today, I'd give it a 3. It's average imo, but it's cool. I think with practice it might actually grow to be good or even great. There are some interesting options I want to try out now on my own. Just gotta save up the gold... D: Definitely hoping we can tweak this build up some more. Also again I suggest we remove the boon variant. Perhaps even try the scepter variant in 4th trait line.

Again: TL;DR: Probably best for 1v1 potential. Hoping it is great to destroy bunkers with to take them off point faster than their team mates can respond off point. Will test further once I can invest in it. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 15:59, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

it was fun dueling with you. i also dont like the boon removal but some other ppl like it very much (against cele meta). but consider that 1. i play with moa which can shut down for 10 sec if used in the right time. 2. in team fight i tend not to be easy target so LB ranger wont notice me in 3v3 or 4v4 while i can take them down fast with their skill use. i kinda like the 3v3 on mid or 4v4 if i target the ele he can be pretty much useless going to water to cleanse even if he wont be dead. i try not to spent time in 1v1 if i can win in 15 sec so i prefer to go help my team in 4v3 or 3v2. 0,4,0,4,6 build wont be good either as the 200 dmg from scepter wont add much dmg to torment and confusion. also i wish i was better dueling player but i am not :D --Messiah (talk) 16:31, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Haven't really tested this yet, but I think you should try this with sword instead of scepter. The root can easily secure a weapon swap (geomancy), and a shatter of 3 clones - the sword 3 one, then one from dodge and one from phase retreat. Skill 2 is also extremely valuable while focused. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 18:11, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah I was thinking of trying sword out (as well as focus), but honestly the scepter is pretty amazing. The block is usually good enough in a 1v1. However, I will eventually try out sword for sure (esp if I try a cele set up) « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 19:59, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
the sword is good but if you try it on mid or in 2v2 3v3 you can find yourself get focused or inside aoe as you cant stay in range. think why the power shatter go doable range and not sword. also sword dont got much conditions proc
Most shatter mesmers roll with sword now and not staff. Even Helseth is playing with sword. Besides invulnerability is a better defense than a single block that works like an Aegis but with an aftercast. It might not be a condi weapon, but you can use it to land your burst better. But this still needs Dire stats. :P (because this is a WvW dueling build). --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 13:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
This build simply suffers greatly in team fights. You focused down with immob too easily. If you take condi clear heal variant or condi clear mantra you'll have to replace a stun breaker or portal. Losing portal loses one of the awesome reasons to run a mesmer as a roamer. Losing blink means you lose serious safety. Losing stealth clone stunbreak means you have no method (aside from torch) to detarget yourself. It's a tough build to play. Esp with the aoe meta that has formed. Still testing so we'll see, but there are serious drawbacks to this build. I have to run traveler's also just to roam somewhat more effectively. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 14:29, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

This is the only mesmer build I run now xP I have made some modifications: Condi mantra is necessary imo (over double clone utility) and I like mass invis quite a bit I think it has it's place in most matches, but ahve more and more been abusing moa when possible to debunk a position / fortify a cap. Works best with a thief that can stealth, but also works very well on this build thanks to the multiple stealths available. I use VIII instead of VII in chaos, I find it gives me better damage and mileage, the stuns are gonna happen anyways and on a 60s cd it's not good enough for me. Instead of V, I also take reflect on distort. Reflect damage uses the shooting player's power but our precision, so it works out well enough against rangers. I love how cele dd ele and rifle engi melt against this build. If used properly I would definitely rate it great now. Seriously suggest others to give this an honest try with their friends, takes some tweaking but is quite awesome. Oh also traveler runes. It's very much needed imo. Last thing I'm testing is energy sigil over geomancy on staff. So far I dig it. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 23:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I think it should be 04046 because of the extra condi cleansing and insane dmg boost while on Scepter. V in Illusions I believe is better because the confusion you inflict has a very short duration by default and it's it's a very significant part of your damage. For teamfights I still think it's useless but for 1v1s and 2v2s this is definitely in the Good range. If only Scepter attacks were more fluid :P --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 18:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
the scepter boost is only 200 dmg on condition thus only adds about 7 dmg to torment and 15 dmg to confusion per stack while losing DD trait which gives 2 stacks of bleed/weakness/vulnerability as cover conditions. --Messiah (talk) 17:49, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Cover conditions is a good point. But that trait does not trigger on shatters. If you go for the condi dmg +200 trait, early on that line you can also take the condi removal on heal trait which makes your heal almos as good as goo as the engi one. I'll look into the condi dmg part, I think it's more than +7 on torment, might be wrong. One thing I really loved about 04046 is the 2k+ confusion ticks. :D --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 17:58, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
so go 0,4,2,2,6 build if needed against heavy condi team. i used to run it but most of the time can handle without it. its +7 i did the math but with 10 stacks of torment its +70 dps etc. check my vids you can see sometimes 3k confusion ticks --Messiah (talk) 18:13, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I forgot about the 04226 Variant, that was something I came to as a conclusion as well and I tested it with ether feast as well as mantra heal. I couldn't decide which was better (required different playstyles imo) but the variant itself was very nice against condi heavy. I'll add that now « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 18:43, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

i see you dont approve some variants of the build: like MI over Blink or AT over MoR . you dont always fight against heavy condi team and good MI use can give you great burst when needed without using dodges or FR or just proc staff clone as safe spot to proc conditions and boons--Messiah (talk) 04:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Personally I'm a fan of MI against power heavy teams because I like the stun break + insta distort. We don't have even a second of distort for free on this build, and always require clones so I used it for that actually. What are your thoughts, Hanz? I personally just forgot about it because there are so many condis these days and I prefer stealth for getting de-targeted. Imo MI isn't as useful as those, but perhaps as a variant. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 05:43, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Main build[edit]

So let's continue the discussion here. We're almost there! Recommending something to take instead of Blink is a bold decision, it's something that has a reserved spot on mesmer bars since day1. The condi clone death is an exception, because of how hard that build invests into signets, but even there you can shoehorn it in. Otherwise it's a must-have thing.

Arcane Thievery Arcane Thievery
¼Activation.png
45Recharge.png
Arcane Thievery
Manipulation. Send three conditions you have to your foe and steal three of their boons.
Range.pngRange: 1,200
Unblockable.pngUnblockable

has a huge CD and won't cleanse conditions if it gets dodged, LoS'd or you simply have no target selected (for example while disengaging from the fight) therefore it's not a good way of cleansing conditions.

There are many reasons why I think 04406 is a bad choice.

  • Shatters don't proc
    Debilitating Dissipation Debilitating Dissipation
    Debilitating Dissipation
    Clones apply a random condition to nearby foes when they are killed.
    Bleed.png2Bleeding (4s): 340 Damage
    Vulnerability.png3Vulnerability (5s): 3% Incoming Damage
    Weakness.pngWeakness (3s): -50% Endurance Regeneration, 50% Fumble (Unrestricted)
    Book.pngNumber of Targets: 5
    Radius.pngRadius: 240
    . While it's true that not every clone will survive long enough to be shattered, most of your clones will.
    • This trait is RNG.
    • You only have ranged clones which reduces the chance of this trait triggering within 240 range.
    • While it adds a bit more access to cover conditions, you already have access to all of those and more on staff autoattacks, chaos storm and chaos armor.
  • Bountiful Interruption Bountiful Interruption
    Bountiful Interruption
    Gain might when you interrupt a foe, then gain another boon randomly.
    Might.png5Always Receive - Might (10s): 150 Power, 150 Condition Damage
    Fury.pngFury (5s): 20% Critical Chance
    Might.pngMight (10s): 35 Power, 35 Condition Damage
    Protection.pngProtection (3s): -33% Incoming Damage
    Regeneration.pngRegen (5s): 650 Heal
    Retaliation.pngRetaliation (5s): Reflect incoming damage back to its source.
    Swiftness.pngSwiftness (5s): 33% Movement Speed
    Vigor.pngVigor (5s): 100% Endurance Regeneration
    isn't bad, but you either have to land a perfect daze chain or your enemy is staying in your chaos storm without stability, casting spells and getting dazed by the RNG, that's the only way this works. Both are on ~35 sec CD and are an unrelyable way of proccing it. Lockdown mesmers have easy access to instant AoE interrupts (GS, Focus, Mantra) - this build does not, so it's a lot less effective in our case.
  • 04046 is better for condi cleansing and increases Scepter dmg (also reduces recharge on skill 3). While the damage difference isn't that huge, this trait affects everything while on Scepter, including shatters and other conditions you inflicted with staff.

About the Illusions line: confusion duration on shatters/skills are very low. That little extra duration from

Master of Misdirection Master of Misdirection
Master of Misdirection
Confusion you inflict lasts longer.
Radius.pngDuration Increase: 33%

means a lot actually.

Sigils: haven't seen a condi build without geomancy sigils, we should somehow make place for it. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 13:54, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I've tested 04046 before (and just now again) with mantra heal and it's nice. I don't dislike it. But that being said I prefer the bountiful illusionment quite a bit. There were many times I wish my enemies got weakness from a debilitating explosion thingy like against thieves or power necros. Also again and again I cannot recommend higher confusion because of the insane amount of power rangers. Hell it's great against the odd pp thief that you'll run into as well (and devastating against unprepared lich form necros). For upper level play, I'm not sure which is better. That would require people actually trying out new builds ;) I'm okay with 04046, if only because I get the self condi cleanse and can save the cleanse utility for team mates as well. I wanted to try out 06026 with the double mantras, but alas too tired today and busy at work « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 15:05, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Debilitating Dissipation Debilitating Dissipation
Debilitating Dissipation
Clones apply a random condition to nearby foes when they are killed.
Bleed.png2Bleeding (4s): 340 Damage
Vulnerability.png3Vulnerability (5s): 3% Incoming Damage
Weakness.pngWeakness (3s): -50% Endurance Regeneration, 50% Fumble (Unrestricted)
Book.pngNumber of Targets: 5
Radius.pngRadius: 240
- you right our clones are range dmg but while you fight on point or dodge on your face of you enemy and if you place you clones on the right spot you can play like PU (without shattering) so your clones will get killed and proc RNG conditions which all of them are nice support or dmg. also against several build like thieves /ele/ guardian who tend to kill your clones fast its win win . also when you send you clones when shattering and they step on aoe field they will get killed before shattered. thus so many ways your clones can get killed and proc DD trait by passive or active game style. i dont think there is a right trait setup. i like 0,4,4,0,6 after playing a lot as 0,4,2,2,6 and 0,4,0,4,6 and 2,4,2,0,6 as it fits most circumstances. but i cant say other wont either. i just like DD and less the scepter icd trait. Confusion duration is not must but its the obvious choice as other trait just dont fit in with condi build and bit circumstantial. Sigil: geomancy is a must and i play it with both weapon sets. and so far its the best condi build in pvp area i have been playing --Messiah (talk) 17:22, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
First let's focus on what we agree on ^^ So the Illusions line will be changed to V and what about the sigils? Geo-Doom on Scepter and Geo-energy on staff? (so you have access to both Poison and an extra dodge + clone on staff) --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 17:58, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I find 24206 to work the best. The extra condi duration helps a bit in offsetting the loss of damage. The clones die way more often than we give them credit for. And I really cannot live without debilitating dissipations weakness/condi pressure against melee. Am digging the extra confusion so far, but there have been times I missed the reflect. Overall might be better though :) « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 21:50, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

24206 work the best in 1v1 if you take cripple when clone dies as it put your conditions at the highest variation (with nightmare rune also fear). you can just see that with mtd everything can work with any variation (not like the power shatter 4,4,0,0,6). i just like 0,4,4,0,6 with staff trait or mirror anguish for another stun break (sort of) if i fight on point close or far as i can stun twice with nightmare runes--Messiah (talk) 07:01, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
For me X42X6 is the base of the build. The last two can go in first, third, or even fourth line quite well imo :) « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 17:04, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Good[edit]

Moved it to good :) Adjusted some variants and the main bar a bit. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 11:54, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Rune of Orr[edit]

Superior Rune of Orr Superior Rune of Orr
Superior Rune of Orr.pngSuperior Rune of Orr
(1): +25 Condition Damage (2): +10% Poison Duration (3): +50 Condition Damage (4): 25% chance when struck to inflict poison for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 20s) (5): +100 Condition Damage (6): +20% Poison Duration; When struck below 20% health you gain quickness for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 90s)

- This might allow you to run Geo/Energy and still have access to Poison. Unfortunately it's really random in teamfights and the condi application is less frequent than a Doom sigil's so if it gets cleansed you can't reapply it for quite some time, but in smaller skirmishes this build was designed for this rune isn't bad imo especially if you can cover that Poison. So you should try it :P--Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 17:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Video guides[edit]

Could we replace them with something that's not hotjoin footage of killing below r10 PvE achie farmers who are keyboard turning? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 11:09, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

its seems you dont like this build . twice you put it out from "good" remove the tpvp videos calling them hotjoin and remove the tutorials also... i dont think you are good for this site --Messiah
44:50. You'll find all your answers there. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 17:57, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
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