Reaper - Viper Burst Burning

Build discussion[edit]

Hey Chinkeeyong, I saw your review of my Reaper build.

So I tested the build with Deathly Chill instead of Reaper's Onslaught against a few champions, prioritizing bleeding more and using the "Shroud Combo". The fights were 1-3 minutes long. I found that the overall damage is about the same, compared with my version that just focuses on auto-attacking in shroud as much as possible.

Most fights in open world gameplay are shorter though, so Reaper's Onslaught will allow you to burst down mobs quicker and more often. Overall I find that version simpler and more versatile, since it doesn't rely on me not being interrupted during the combo of Executioner's Scythe + Soul Spiral, which takes 4 seconds to complete.

You describe the build as wonky and don't seem to like it very much. Is there any particular aspect of it that you think could be improved to be stronger in open world gameplay, while still keeping it a condi build? I find the gameplay actually flows quite nicely.

--Acrynx (talk) 18:04, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Hey, first of all, thanks for contributing to metabattle and making the effort to test builds out. We have a serious shortage of contributors here so anyone working on the site is welcome.

I don't agree with your build as presented because I think it's strictly worse than Power Reaper, which gets far better damage scaling in Shroud as well as much better burst damage. Shroud skills have excellent power scaling but deal zero condition damage baseline. This means you're trading away the large power damage increase from Berserker gear in exchange for boosting your 3-second Dhuumfire burns (which according to you are the main source of damage). Meanwhile, you lose potential damage outside Shroud because you neglect your main damage dealing conditions in favor of burning.

You say that you can kill champions in "1-3 minutes," but that's a massive difference and doesn't really tell us anything from an experimental point of view. That can be anywhere between 3000 and 9000 DPS to kill the same 500k HP champion. If you don't already have a DPS meter like arcdps, it is a really good tool for measuring how well certain builds and rotations fare compared to others. I also recommend testing on the golem in the Special Forces Training Area, instead of random open world champions, as it provides a reliable benchmark of how long your build takes to reach certain damage thresholds.

I will admit that I haven't seriously tested this build or the Condi Reaper build in an open world context, so it may be that your build performs similarly to Condi Reaper in open world once you factor in quickness from Reaper's Onslaught. (I added Condi Reaper before the quickness change and will lower the build's ranking if this is true.) In most situations though Power Reaper and Condi Reaper seem much more effective in their specific niches.

Suggestions: I think Grieving gear is a promising direction to build towards, as it sacrifices less power damage, and the lost condition duration can be made up by investing into burning duration. Grieving Condi Reaper is already viable and this stat set may be the push that your build needs to be stronger in open world. I also think that the build would be much more convincing if it was backed up with a video or a DPS log showing how effective it is in various scenarios.

-Chinkeeyong (talk) 20:45, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for taking the time to comment in detail and making an effort to help!

I can definitely see where you're coming from regarding the comparison of condi Reaper builds to Power Reaper. I would love to test that power build myself and see the difference in DPS, but I currenty don't have any ascended Berserker gear for my Reaper. What would the DPS numbers be like in a solo scenario?

I did my best to benchmark my build and the "standard" condi Reaper build against the 1m HP golem in the Special Forces Training Area (default hitbox, no preexisting condis/boons, no breakbar, no resistance to power dmg, just default settings). First time doing this, so feel free to point out my mistakes. I don't have a DPS meter set up yet, so I used the numbers that were dumped into the chat box.

Scenario 1:
My Build
Burn, bleed and chill were at 94.4% increased duration, other condis at 74.4%.
Every burn from Dhuumfire lasts 5.8 seconds. A maximum of 11 stacks can be kept on the target, reached within 5.5 seconds.
Time to kill was 93 seconds, which means DPS was 10.7k (pretty consistently). I did multiple runs, all were about the same.

Scenario 2:
Traits changed to match Condi Minion Master, all other aspects of the build remained the same.
Additionally used the "Shroud Combo"; did not use Shroud auto-attack chain.
Burn (not used), bleed and chill still at 94.4% increased duration, other condis still at 74.4%.
Time to kill was 105 seconds, which means DPS was 9.5k (a little less consistently). I did multiple runs, they were pretty close.

I did not have the time to record a video of the benchmarking process today, but I might be able to record one in the future. It's pretty much guaranteed that my rotation is not optimal, though I would asume that affected the results of both builds about equally.

I will look into Grieving gear, since I'm curious about the DPS potential and whether I would still be able to reach 90-100% increased burning duration from other sources even without the added expertise of Viper gear.

--Acrynx (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I did a few Power Reaper benchmarks with my Necro, which has an ascended amulet and rings, and everything else in exotic. My best parse was 13.4k DPS over 75 seconds. That's a 25% increase over your build, so it's quite a lot stronger, especially since my gear is worse than yours. With full ascended gear and more grinding I imagine 15k or 16k is possible.

You should be able to reach 95% burning duration on Grieving gear with /, , and
Bowl of Fire Meat Chili Bowl of Fire Meat Chili
Bowl of Fire Meat Chili.pngBowl of Fire Meat Chili
Nourishment (30 m):
Food.png+15% burn duration+70 precision+10 Experience from kills
. I think it's worth a shot.

-Chinkeeyong (talk) 08:26, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. I've since switched to Power Reaper and the build really is significantly stronger in both burst and sustained damage output while not really being less survivable.

I was also able to confirm your benchmarks. With maxed out gear for the build I was able to kill the golem in 66 seconds consistently, which is 15.1k DPS.

Now I really don't see any niche for my burning build at all. I think it should be removed to avoid confusing less experienced players.

--Acrynx (talk) 13:24, 27 January 2019 (UTC)