Thief - Sword/Pistol

I don't know where else to pose this question, but since there really are multiple viable specs per weapon set, how should we go about listing them?

Should I list the 60026 panic strike pistol whip under variants or make a new guide? Should we change the titles of all these guides to something less general than class-weaponset?

60026 is just as viable, if not more viable ever since the ferocity nerf.--Elemelentalist (talk) 10:24, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Good question. There is a guy who solved a similar problem by adding an entire 2nd trait tree as "Variation". Maybe you could do the same, under the current version of traits make a second version labeled as "6/0/0/2/6 version" - but I've been thinking about replacing the current trait tree entirely just some hours ago because i think this one is outdated. Question is viability. It doesn't matter if they are equally good or bad as long as they are equal and the difference is just a matter of preferance. But in case one is significantly better than the other, making a new article for it is a good solution, with "variant" or the trait distribution in its name. But if this one is outdated simply, replace the traits. --Hanz (talk) 10:34, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I made a couple of change, because of the new patch. I don't think we'll be able to rely on black powder for stomps, so I've changed shadow refuge to smoke bomb (the changes are all variants for now, obviously). This allows for better stomp safety and can still be used in black powder for 6 seconds of stealth on player being ressed (though you have to be in the damage which doesn't work very well). I also added sundering strikes because of the nerf to panic strike coming up. I don't think either change is too crazy, and can be used as an alternative to test things out. I'm using 60206 for the condi removal as well to pretty good effect, the extra stealth also makes me feel as though the burst coming out of stealth is harder to anticipate. I thought I'd miss the extra might, but surprisingly I don't lol « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 16:39, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Smoke bomb? I think you mean
Blinding Powder Blinding Powder
Blinding Powder
Deception. Blind foes in the target area and grant stealth to nearby allies.
Stealth.pngStealth (3s): Invisible to foes.
Blind.pngBlindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses.
Radius.pngSmoke Bomb Radius: 240
Combo.pngCombo Finisher: Blast
. --Human icon.png Dantes (talk) 18:12, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Also Blinding Powder interrupts all current animations including Stomps. So I don't see how it will be useful for stomping. What will most likely happen is that people will just stop playing S/P again. Sundering Strikes is not worth it and S/P has always been a weaker build than D/P. It comes back in fads (it was annoyingly popular in November/December 2013) but never worth playing in higher ratings. Until Anet separates Pistol Whip like they did Flanking Strike I doubt you will ever see thieves seriously play it. --Human icon.png Dantes (talk) 05:25, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Panic Strike[edit]

Blackie why do you think it's bad? The 3+ seconds of immob is great for setting up a

Pistol Whip Pistol Whip
Pistol Whip
Dual Wield. Pistol whip your foe, stunning them, then slash repeatedly with your sword.
Damage.png9Damage: 765
Stun.pngStun (½s): Unable to use skills or move.
Range.pngRange: 130

but also in general can secure a kill for your team. It has a bit lower dmg than the crit strikes version, but definitely wouldn't call it bad. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 19:44, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

I think many people are confused with how the panic strikes version works. It's best used in a double zerker ammy comp. This build plus another can land a devastating burst on many professions. That being said, I'm not sure that variant works very well in S/P. It makes more sense in D/P for me because you can easily get stealth and use the condi removal. Without the condi removal aspect, the panic strikes is (imo) worse than the crit strikes for this build. Also S/P is more group fight oriented and not about landing it on any singular foe. I honestly think 66002 pure dps burst has more merit for S/P than a panic strikes variant. I would vote to remove it as well. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 01:37, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Also you can start with d/p 3 to proc the grandmaster minor 10% damage boost on d/p. With S/P you really rely on others applying conditions or them under immob for that extra dps. This makes getting them to 50% harder. Not to mention for 1v1 you have less damage already than a d/p build. S/P really has a niche set up for burst group dps I think « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 01:39, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
I consider this a pretty bad build by default, I'm not even sure it deserves to be on metabattle because it's clearly subpar to D/P and S/D (especially since it lacks the steal to stealth combo which leaves it lacking even in damage) and I'd even say it's subpar to relatively unused setups such as P/P. But when it specifically comes to the "Newest" version it's in my opinion fatally flawed because it lacks personal conditions to trigger Exposed Weakness, doesn't really benefit from Lotus Poison, Improvisation is unreliable and not worth the points and Panic Strike is simply a work-around to S/P being fatally flawed in the first place. "Old Version" at least has quickness which lets you get a pistol whip off in a shorter amount of time, has Opportunity which in a short 5 sec fight with pistol whip is almost guaranteed to proc twice and on top of this has executioner which in combination with Critical Haste at least gives it a really nice burst. If you are to have any degree of success as S/P you're going to have to rely on careful target selection and outmanning opponents anyhow. Blackie (talk) 23:21, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Okay, removed it. But it's definitely not worse than P/P. Nothing is worse than P/P :P It was meta before Anet increased the PW initiative cost from 5 to 6. You can destroy squishy target with a well timed PW and the cleave this provides is excellent. It's not as good as D/P or S/D that's why it's not in the same tier. Improvisation btw is meta on the current D/P build and you don't need to worry about personal condi application as it's not really a 1v1 build - however you could still apply poison / immob. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 14:56, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Improvisation is just a skill you throw in there in lack of other good alternatives. You would never go from 2-4 points in any build to get improvisation, hence "not worth the points". You just grab it when going 6 because what else is there? Blackie (talk) 19:54, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I know, it's just that you made it sound like it's not the best choice for the slot (or at least that's how I understood it). --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 20:01, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Some people do prefer dagger mastery over improvisation's rng. However, I prefer to use three types of skills and hope for the improv procs. I think it's better & performance wise possibly better. Back to back SR / Basi venom is addicting. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 20:23, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, again though. Point I was making is you don't ever spec 46040 or anything like that to grab the amazing Improvisation trait. You only grab it if you're passing by, going for 5 or 6 points. Blackie (talk) 05:58, 18 February 2015 (UTC)