Welcome to MetaBattle[edit]

Hey Fredor!

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DS shredder[edit]

It's only tagged for Dungeons, so adding description and variants for open world PvE is pointless. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 14:43, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, but Chase is thinking of trashing it since it is not useful in group play. Thus my generell suggestion in the corresponding discussion is to move it to generell to prevent it from being deleted. Fredor (talk) 15:26, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Minor traits[edit]

Basically you use the template you'd use for other traits but instead of writing "X" or "VI" etc you put a "-" - actually you can type anything even "Bearbow" and it'll still work:

Furious Demise Furious Demise
Furious Demise
Gain fury when entering death shroud.
Fury.pngFury (5s): 20% Critical Chance

. But "-" is shorter and kind of standard now :P Gj with the rotations btw! --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 15:59, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

tyvm! Fredor (talk) 16:15, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Staff elementalist[edit]

As Chase suggested I'm just gonna cut the discussion on previous page. Everything there has already been said multiple times. I still think your build is completely unsuited to the the primary staff elementalist build on metabattle, but I would suggest you make a page for "Secondary Staff Elementalist" with same skill selection as you're arguing for but 5/5/2/2/0 traits. That way the build is not responsible for Fury upkeep but has good vulnerability, utility and great DPS. Because with your skill selection and rotation, that's the best way of playing the build. Blackie (talk) 17:45, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

these builds are only small variations of the same build. there should be space on the page for both of them since the difference is only one skill Fredor (talk) 18:12, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
You don't see the big picture here. Assuming primary elementalist to be 66002 or 66020 with Arcane Wave, Sigil of Fire and Frost bow a 55220 Elementalist with Sigil of Fire, Glyph of Storms and Frost Bow would not only bring superior damage to the primary elementalist but it would also invalidate the need for having Glyph of Storms on the primary elementalist as the secondary one brings it allowing both builds to bring Sigil of Fire. Exact same thing you see with 65003 warriors sharing banners, having two warriors bringing one banner each gives both warriors a power boost in the form of removing one banner and adding a second signet to both. Blackie (talk) 18:27, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


Have you seen this version? To me it looks cleaner and simpler. I'm also wondering if we should rename the "Food/utility" to "Consumables" so we can include more advanced things like Hylek Gun or those Invisibility Feathers etc. (I also placed food first, because of the title, that's all) « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 13:50, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Indeed it looks very nice. The problem I have is that your "default rotation" is not the default rotation but the rotation you use after you have put all of your skills on cd so that they might recharge while you are in lich form. But I cannot completly say how the default rotations is played. At the very least it will start on warhorn for locust swarm, then it depends if you use all of your skills to interrupt your daggerchain or if you use a few of your other skills first. Dunno would be best if we ask spoj about that again. Fredor (talk) 14:51, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
and yes "consumables" is the better name^^ Fredor (talk) 14:56, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
According to what I understood, that is the default rotation -- Everything should be off cooldown once Lich Form expires. We should move that to the discussion page btw. On the aspect of consumables, let's do it! I will hopefully create a few templates we can use on every dungeon page (I believe the utility potions will be the same for most of the classes?) And I'll test them here in your talk page with you « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 15:13, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, everything should be off cooldown then, but that makes it one long rotation. The default rotation is the one you use if you do not have access to lich form. You may move the stuff to the necro discussion page ;P btw we should also ask Jerem what to do with the ds shredder build Fredor (talk) 16:46, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh that's a good point. Some part of me would prefer we have one dungeon build and offer variants that allow for max DPS in less forgiving environments akin to switching 66002 thief to 56030 for extra dodges. I'm sure there is something similar for necros, whether that is the DS shredder or not I'm not sure « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 17:05, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
it's tankier, but one hit attacks are still one hits ^^" Fredor (talk) 17:26, 1 April 2015 (UTC)


Jerem « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 13:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Necro PvE[edit]

Shouldn't one be archived? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 08:06, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

We might need to archive one of the two since a build without soul reaping is bad imo. But this needs to be archived none the less imo Necromancer - Dagger DS

Fredor (talk) 08:13, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Warrior GS/Axe Mace[edit]

If it is the second warrior build, please link to the "primary warrior" build in the overview as well. Noobs like me don't know what they should be playing! « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 12:59, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Minor Traits[edit]

Please sign your messages. Is this what you mean by showcase?

Showcasing the
Empowering Flame
Elementalist-minor-trait.pngEmpowering Flame
Gain power while in fire attunement.
Book.pngAttribute Adjust: 150
minor adept trait for Elementalists.
Showcasing the
Empowering Flame Empowering Flame
Elementalist-minor-trait.pngEmpowering Flame
Gain power while in fire attunement.
Book.pngAttribute Adjust: 150
minor adept trait for Elementalists.
Showcasing the
Empowering Flame
Elementalist-minor-trait.pngEmpowering Flame
Gain power while in fire attunement.
Book.pngAttribute Adjust: 150
minor adept trait for Elementalists.

If not, let me know. « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 18:25, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Sry forgot that. ahh okay ty. I already asked hanz be he also diddn't know^^ Fredor (talk) 21:25, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
No problem -- If you need anything else you know where to reach me :) « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 23:17, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Checklist on CP[edit]

I like where the checklist is so far, my only concern is that these pages have a lot of edits (high traffic). After you've finished everything, please make sure all the pages are indeed finished and that they haven't been modified (or if they have been, then the edit should make sense / have been discussed). Probably best to work with SC on these as well. I know nike posted on at least one page, but it seemed you tackled that already. Just be sure to double-check everything after the checklist is finished! « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 23:17, 6 July 2015 (UTC)


Are you still required to fill these in? « Chase ♥ ♥ ♥ » 17:12, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Balance patch[edit]

Patch isn't live yet and we don't have a release date for it so careful with the changes :P --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 07:30, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, but the skill already has the highest healing of all the healing skills if traited. Even higher than warrior signet and stuff. So i see no problem in making it the main heal right now. Fredor (talk) 07:33, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
kk, just saw the edit comment about boon copying which isn't a thing yet --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 07:39, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
so frostbow = killed to death? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 16:41, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
We'll have to see, but i think so. Jerem also started removing them, so I think itÄs safe to remove them. Fredor (talk) 17:25, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Venom share[edit]

Wiped the votes for the build, feel free to vote again. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 07:51, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Warrior builds[edit]

It's a mess, we have to clean it up. The build with 500k+ views will get the google search traffic, so that should have the correct stuff. So. What's the meta phalanx warrior atm? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 14:02, 8 November 2015 (UTC)--Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 14:02, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Well the berserker build of course. But only changing traits and one or two skills left this build with completly old rotations and suggestions. But the first step would be to fox the berserker trait line. That one is extremly outdated. Fredor (talk) 15:56, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
kk, I'll get to it soon --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 16:21, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Traits are done, what else needs to be changed? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 16:59, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
I added nikes video. Rotation and Usage based on that video. Equip based on that video (assassins earrings). Healing Signet and mention the blue healing skills. Then it might be ready for a checkup. Vote wipe would also be nice then Fredor (talk) 17:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
kk gj ^^ Tho it's still Phalanx and extremely desired (afaik, so not sure about the vote wipe). --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 17:51, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
It has exactly one vote (and a negativ one at that) from the guy who could only speak gutter english. Fredor (talk) 17:54, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Ah that xD I meant the votes from the "old" build. I'll move the berserker one to meta and the votes from the old build to the berserker if that's fine. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 18:14, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Yeah you can do that. Btw the minor berserker traits still need an update ;P Fredor (talk) 18:48, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Ah, later :D Busy working on GH. The important thing is to get the trait order right, descriptons won't affect ingame choices anyways. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 19:08, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Shouldn't HS be the main option? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 21:17, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
It should be according to DnT afair, but someone from sc changed it. Since he diddn't leave a usage i would use healing signet as the main skill and write a few words to the new skill. Fredor (talk) 22:02, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
The minor traits need to be updated and primal burst skills need to be added. Fredor (talk) 07:44, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


Hmm why did you undo it?--Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 19:57, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Hammer for ranged zerg at vale guard Fredor (talk) 20:23, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
I didn't remove hammer. I added it as a variant + formatted slot changes. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 21:28, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
Ohh. I think i misread something in diff :D Fredor (talk) 21:34, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
Happens xP Well I indeed removed the 2nd skillbar, only added hammer as a sidenote like Mace already was. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 22:01, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Slot changes[edit]

I've been looking through some pve builds recently and they all have so many suggested variants when it comes to skills. Is this really necessary? :P At this point it feels like we could just say "run whatever it's k". --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 14:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

  • Depends on build and class. A few classes have many good and/or situational utilities where others have mostly crappy ones. So I would list the good ones to prevent them from slotting their bar with crap.
  • Since I already have your attention: There is a strange oddity here: The main page only displays YouTube while the preview displays the correct name. Fredor (talk) 14:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Hmm that's weird, I'll look into it. On the topic: I get it that many of those skills have value, but some seem to be for a super rare and situational use such as Spectral Grasp for pulling mobs - I'm not really a dungeon/fractal player but whenever i did those we never once had to pull mobs with that kind of stuff. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 15:25, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Okay that one is a remnant from when you pulled ghosteater and other mobs like golems or sth. Anything else? Fredor (talk) 16:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


Hmm I've seen that in some build Overviews you mentioned that HoT/non-HoT users should use xy build if they can instead of that specific one and i think that's a good idea, but I wonder how good are non elite spec builds compared to their elite spec counterparts? For example classic PS war vs PS berserker. If the gap is huge I think we should either archive the old ones or move them down a tier to Good so we signify the difference in performance but non-HoT users might still find them easily. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 09:11, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, I wanted to do that some time ago but never got an anwser from you :x Fredor (talk) 10:10, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
My bad xP --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 10:11, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
I downgraded the first bulk of builds. Not quite sure about 1 or 2 builds. You might wanna delete the ratings soon. I will add something to the overview soon. Dunno if we should add an "availability" section to the builds or sth. Btw I also have someone who went through all the staff ele builds. I am gonna redirect them quite soon i think. Fredor (talk) 11:13, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
kk. I think the condi ranger buid should be in great, isn't that one of the best DPS builds atm? --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 11:35, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Before HoT the dps was slightly higher than the spotter build. Since then changed quite much and nobody made a dps calc. The food got nerfed by 50% and geared changed. Although you have now a bit more bleeding duration. So I would say that it is still somewhere around the spotter build. The druid spotter build on the other hand only swapped out a mediocre traitline and got godlike group and dmg buffing capabilities. Thus I would use this a the new standard and both builds are weaker imo. Fredor (talk) 11:51, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
K, sounds fair. --Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 11:59, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Re: Valk Greatsword/X reaper[edit]

Hi. Not sure where the best spot to put my reply is, but I figured since you were the poster I'd reply on your talk page.

A few things in response to everyone's points:

  • The reason banners are not included in calculations such as this is because banners do not have 100% uptime. The idea behind a 100% crit build is that it's always at 100%, not just "100% crit while banners are up". Whether or not that works for you is up to you, but there it is. Yes you won't always have spotter but the valk variant is only for when you are running with a static group and always have access to the buffs you need. If you are assuming 100% fury uptime and always having 25 stacks of vulnerability, then you should also assume you have Spotter.
  • Furious Maintenance Oil vs. Superior Sharpening Stone: for this variant Furious Maintenance Oil is indeed better, i have done the math on this, I can show it if needed.
  • As for using this build in open world, as I understand this site does not distinguish between optimized open-world builds, that's why there's no open-world section, and why no builds are tagged as 'open-world' builds. So IMO this variant's performance doesn't really matter in open-world; anything will work there.
  • Same with low-level dungeons, as I understand we are assuming level 80 when we post builds. To my knowledge there is no "sub-level 80" build section on this site.

Anyway, I think the Valkyrie setup should be considered, since for static raids/fractals/level 80 dungeons with proper buffs it gives superior damage compared to pure berserker.

There are many people who run GS power reaper, and some of those people may want to have the best possible damage for it, so IMO it's worth posting this variant. --BlasiuS (talk) 19:46, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

First, you could have just answered on your own page.
  • Banners are always calculated for dungeons as they are up for the important fights.
  • Spotter isn't used, cause ranger is still not that common besides raids.
  • Feel free to share, but normally the moment you reach enough critchance, power is always the better way to go. And you do have more than enough critchance with that build.
  • Open world isn't listed, yes, but we know our "customers".
  • As it is tagged for dungeons, you should always consider the low lvl scaling.
  • For your last aspect, you wont do more dmg with valkyrie, you just get more life what you don't really need. Thor (talk) 11:00, 25 June 2016 (UTC)